28 obstacle throughout the negotiation was the issue of land tenure, since to have a management plan there had to be a well-defined area. Another task undertaken by the World Wildlife Fund was to ensure that there be a process to which the various parties would adhere. In addition, once the negotiations had begun, the WWF contributed to hiring a facilitator to help “unblock” the negotiation. The result of these negotiations was an agreement among the three parties, with participation by the Awas Tingni Community, the State through MARENA, and the MADENSA corporation. It was a five-year, renewable agreement, setting the terms for the sale of timber by the Community and bought by the corporation; the terms under which MARENA recognizes land tenure, ownership of the land; the terms of activities for yearly extraction, and the monitoring system which this operation would require. Several parts of the agreement refer to land tenure. One of them considers the community as if it were “the owner of these lands”. Furthermore, Nicaragua undertook the commitment to facilitate the titling process and to not undermine the Community’s aspirations as regards their territorial claims. While the contract stated that the State would facilitate the process of land titling, the witness does not recall having heard how this would be done. He recalls a discussion on this matter, because the process of land titling which was known up to then was that carried out by INRA, the Nicaraguan Agrarian Reform Institute, which at that time distributed 50 manzanas of land per family. However, the National Forestry Service was very emphatic that such a process was inadequate in this case, arguing that what they wanted to promote as land use was forestry, while the INRA process promoted agricultural land use. They feared that the model of agricultural land distribution would unleash a wave of deforestation. He does not recall MARENA establishing a path for the Community to request land titling, since they were also confused as to what the process should be. As of 1994, he had less contact with the project and no direct knowledge of what was happening. He heard of State plans to grant a concession to the SOLCARSA corporation through a letter sent by the Community, through its representatives, to Minister Milton Caldera. He held a conversation with Minister Caldera at the time in connection with the concession to SOLCARSA. That official knew that the land claimed by the community included most of the area included in the concession, and that the Community objected to it. The Minister’s reaction was that the agreement that MARENA had signed with the Community and with MADENSA was an agreement which he did not agree with, and regarding the Community’s claims, he said “they are too many”. The State has had two policies in granting the concession to MADENSA, first, and subsequently to SOLCARSA. One was a recognition of the acquired rights of the communities, and that they should be taken into account in those forest management contracts; the other was that as long as there is no title deed, there is no basis for thinking that the communities have acquired rights and, therefore, concessions on public lands can be granted to third parties. f. Testimony of Galio Claudio Enrique Gurdián Gurdián, holder of a licentiate degree in philosophy, a specialist in social anthropology and development studies, especially relations between States and indigenous peoples