Beneath the ground, ucupacha, there are people living as they do here. There are beautiful towns down there; there are trees, lakes and mountains. Sometimes you hear doors shutting in the mountains; that is the presence of those that live there… We live in the caipacha. The powerful and ancient shaman lives In the jahuapacha. There everything is flat, beautiful … I don’t know how many pachas there are above, where the clouds are there is a pacha; where the moon and stars are there is another pacha; beyond this there is another pacha, where there are paths made of gold; then this there is another pacha where I have been, which is a planet of flowers where I saw a beautiful hummingbird that was drinking honey from the flowers. I have reached that point, but I couldn’t go beyond. All the ancient shamans have studied to try and reach the jahuapacha. We know that god is there, but we haven’t reached it.165 151. In a previous statement, Mr. Gualinga had explained that “the extermination of life is intolerable; the destruction of the jungle erases the soul; we stop being people of the jungle.”166 152. The current Sarayaku President, José Gualinga, stated that in this “living forest” there are “special noises and phenomena” and it is the “inspiration where, when we are in these places, we feel a kind of sigh, an emotion, and then when we return to our people, to the family, we feel strengthened.”167 These are the places that “give us the necessary power, potential and energy to be able to survive and live. And everything is interrelated between the lagoons, the mountains, the trees, the beings, and also us as an external living being.”168 He also stated: “[W]e were born, we have grown up, our ancestors have lived on these lands and also our parents; in other words, we are natives of this land and we subsist from this ecosystem, from this environment.”169 153. For the Sarayaku, a close relationship exists between the Kawsak Sacha or “living forest” and its members. According to Patricia Gualinga: It is a close relationship, a relationship of harmonious coexistence. For us, the Kawsak Sacha is the living forest, with everything this implies, with all its beings, with all its worldview, with all its culture with which we are intermingled. […] These beings are extremely important. They provide us with vital energy; they maintain balance and abundance; they maintain the entire cosmos and are interconnected. These beings are essential not just for the Sarayaku, but for the equilibrium of the Amazon, they are all interconnected and, therefore, the Sarayaku defends its living space so ardently.170 154. During the public hearing, expert witness Rodrigo Villagra Carrón indicated that “territory, knowledge, possibilities, the potential for production, but also for human reproduction, are intimately related.”171 Similarly, he considered that “the cultural identity of each cultural group is dependent on the special relationship it has with nature, expressed in the most varied practices of management, protection, use or primary extraction of natural resources, goods or services from the ecosystems.” Meanwhile, expert witness Victor López Acevedo stated that “for the Sarayaku it is not acceptable to depend on the State or on other internal groups that demand products, because they understand that the land is their greatest wealth, in the sense that it contains all the material elements required for satisfactory social reproduction, and where the beings that represent their spiritual beliefs are to be found. These beliefs are based on a different value system to that of the society around them, and constitutes their raison d’être and their reason for living.”172 155. The proven and undisputed facts in this case allow the Court to consider that the Kichwa People of Sarayaku have a profound and special relationship with their ancestral territory, which is 165 FLACSO. Sarayaku: el Pueblo del Cénit, p. 96 (evidence file, tome 11, folio 6678). 166 FLACSO. Sarayaku: el Pueblo del Cénit, folio 6729. 167 Affidavit prepared by José María Gualinga Montalvo on June 27, 2011 (evidence file, tome 19, folio 10016) 168 Affidavit prepared by José María Gualinga Montalvo, folio 10016. 169 Affidavit prepared by José María Gualinga Montalvo, folios 10028 and10029. See also: Affidavit prepared by Franco Tulio Viteri Gualinga on June 27, 2011 (evidence file, tome 19, folios 9994 and 9995) 170 Testimony rendered by Patricia Gualinga before the Inter-American Court during the public hearing of July 6, 2011. 171 Expert opinion provided by anthropologist Rodrigo Villagra before the Inter-American Court during the public hearing held on July 7, 2011. 172 Expert opinion provided by affidavit by anthropologist Víctor López Acevedo on June 29, 2011 (evidence file, tome 19, folios 10145 and 10146). 38